# S2 E9 - QSIC - Mark Walkin

S2 E9 - QSIC - Mark Walkin 

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[00:00:22] Tom: Today's episode is gonna be with a company called QSIC, and it's one where we were at Shoptalk and. We did actually two different podcasts. One with QSIC and 7-Eleven and then one that you're gonna hear now with Marc Wakin, the CMO of QSIC on its own. And, my perspective was, this was a great discussion because I learned a ton about in-store audio and just the idea of in-store audio was something that I wasn't even really ready to consider part of retail media. 

[00:00:53] Todd: I think what's fascinating with QSIC is its business primarily. Originally was [00:01:00] about replacing Muzak being a modern audio delivery system platform for stores, and it delivers a way better experience from a, just a pure audio standpoint. It's founded by two A/V geeks. And the retail media piece of that business is a secondary thought. 

[00:01:18] Todd: You're in store, you're a modern IP based, meaning internet protocol based IP based platform. And once you are and you're digitally enabled, you can enable retail media. It's an easy thing to, to layer on and obviously. Audio and inserting audio ads is a natural radio has had ads forever. 

[00:01:39] Todd: And so the idea of putting ads inside a store environment works. And so that's why I think what's fascinating is you have these companies, again, them grocery tv, who've got businesses that support traditional in-store functionality and can thrive just through that core as their core business. And the retail media is a, it adds onto that. 

[00:01:56] Todd: But it's, they've been around for a while. Yeah. 

[00:01:58] Tom: They've been around for a bit, but [00:02:00] they're not so old that they were in the sort of analog days where it was about playlisting or loading files onto systems. And trying to, be really creative in how they orchestrate things. 

[00:02:11] Tom: This is really just to your point, it's an IP based system. They can be doing six second ads, like you're doing 15 second ads. They can do whatever you need. And then I think the other cool thing as we get into the discussion is. The timing is such where now AI is making it possible to do the creative in, in the moment you can be as flexible as, using weather trends and other types of things that are traditionally you would think, that's way too difficult to try to incorporate into , a store rollout. 

[00:02:40] Todd: And I think another piece of this is that there are a lot more players. In retail media and retail media infrastructure, and I think we necessarily realize it's not just Criteo. It's not just Epsilon. When you start adding in other, vendors, the Zitchas in terms of helping catalog trade slash retail media. 

[00:02:58] Todd: Items that can be sold by the [00:03:00] retailer. You've, you, if you're interested in-store audio, there's players like QSIC, you're interested in store video. There's players like grocery tv, and there's just a much bigger variety of companies attacking this space and offering functionality. And so if you are a retailer. 

[00:03:15] Todd: There's , a much more diverse ecosystem and it's more mature. Like QSIC been around for a number of years, Grocery TV been around for a number of years. And I think that's the other thing. You're not just dealing with startups, you're dealing with companies who are companies and can really support a retailer. 

[00:03:29] Todd: And I think that's the other thing is that there's more depth in addition to the breadth. Then I think we realized as we started going down the journey of trying to really understand. Retail media from end to end. 

[00:03:40] Tom: I think a lot of times retailers have a hard time getting into and creating their own retail media network, and I think sometimes that's because the nature or the store type that they're in, they could be club, they could be convenience, and it may be that audio works really well and maybe offsite doesn't work as well, or whatever the mixture the [00:04:00] combination of capabilities. 

[00:04:02] Tom: Now that there are players that can do in-store offsite, onsite. Having all of those capabilities means that you can lead with what you're, what is best for your measurement, best for your store type. And I think that is making it easier. 'cause in the case of seven 11 in one of our earlier episodes, they're really leading with audio. 

[00:04:20] Tom: Really to me that was an eye-opener. Oh, you could potentially have that be the flagship product. 

[00:04:26] Todd: I think it's interesting, there's other players too that we're gonna be talking to in future episodes like Vistar, another in-store player, and. As a result of the emergence of these, what's starting to happen is you hear discussions from the Criteo's and Epsilons and Kevel's of the world doing more integrations with these parties. 

[00:04:42] Todd: And so as you're right you're gonna see true platform plays. You're gonna see the ability to manage this and as a retailer looking to build out retail media. It's not as hard as you think. The good news, right? These companies are mature, they know how to manage integrations, they know how to work with different partners. 

[00:04:58] Todd: There's obviously consultancies that are [00:05:00] emerging that, that help companies do this too, in terms of integrating that. So there's knowledge. It's not a, I think a steep, a curve. If you want to do something, you can do it in a relatively straightforward fashion if you're that retailer, , every retailer of any size is gonna have retail media. I think that's pretty clear. It's gonna be extension of trade. And really, it's not a question, therefore it's not the question of, if it's a question of really what are the capabilities gonna be? And they will cover in-store offsite and onsite, meaning the website and all three of that. 

[00:05:27] Todd: What we're gonna see are the realities of what it is in terms of what's the buyer experience? If you're an ad buyer of retail media, what's the, if you're the builder, what does that look like? And, we're starting to hear those stories. And so there's a certain maturity to the space. 

[00:05:39] Todd: And so that gets to my point of it's, again, it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when and then what. 

[00:05:44] Tom: Great. Let's get to the discussion with Mark. 

[00:05:48] Tom: welcome to Shop Talk. We are the middleman and we are here with Mark Walkin of QSIC, the CMO 

[00:05:55] Tom: QSIC.  

[00:05:56] Marc Walkin: Good  

[00:05:57] Tom: good to see you. We've seen you a lot. 

[00:05:58] Marc Walkin: Yes. Oh yeah, we [00:06:00] are attached at the hip, the show. 

[00:06:02] Tom: Yeah, we've got some interesting episodes where mark is a featured guest. He's now a featured guest with us and 

[00:06:08] Marc Walkin: And I was the moderator 

[00:06:09] Tom: a moderator. 

[00:06:10] Tom: He was a moderator. Yeah. He did a lot of stuff, but it's been a good show. And we wanted to dig in a little bit deeper because you're at a company called QSIC, which I hadn't really heard of until you moved over there.  

[00:06:20] Todd: Hence why they hired A CMO. Yeah. They needed a CMO, right? We, they, you hadn't heard of them. 

[00:06:24] Todd: That's Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's good to know you're  

[00:06:26] Marc Walkin: needed. 

[00:06:27] Marc Walkin: Yes. Yep. Exactly.  

[00:06:29] Tom: I think what's interesting about what you and QSIC bring to the table is a totally different perspective on what retail media should be. So tell me a little bit about. QSIC and then we'll get into sort of, how you see the future. 

[00:06:41] Tom: 'cause I know we, we know each other from or BWG Global. So yeah, we know through Justin. 

[00:06:47] Todd: And is that pre-day quotient?  

[00:06:48] Tom: this 

[00:06:48] Tom: Oh no. This is a call that  

[00:06:50] Tom: we  

[00:06:50] Tom: do Oh, okay.  

[00:06:51] Tom: Every month 

[00:06:51] Tom: or so to talk about retail media. So he's a pontificator,  

[00:06:54] Tom: so he's 

[00:06:55] Tom: gonna be good today. 

[00:06:56] Tom: We're just, just putting, 

[00:06:58] Tom: putting the right expectations out there. [00:07:00] Yeah. But yeah. So tell us the history of QSIC  

[00:07:01] Marc Walkin: yeah, absolutely. 

[00:07:03] Marc Walkin: Just to set the stage, what I like to, how I like to describe QSIC in just a few words is  

[00:07:07] Marc Walkin: we're. IN-STORE AUDIO...BUT WE'RE GOOD. 

[00:07:11] So the company itself was founded by Matt and Nick. They're high school buddies in Australia, and they were just AV nerds more than anything. 

[00:07:19] Marc Walkin: And they, and I just, Tom learned this last night and then told me apparently they got started in like home automation, which I did not know about. So that was the initial what came to me, but using technology to streamline things and they ended up 

[00:07:33] Tom: moving 

[00:07:33] Marc Walkin: it, it really focusing on audio. 

[00:07:35] Marc Walkin: They were in a few pubs and they said, what? The audio just stinks, like the volume's too high, the music stinks, whatever. So they came out with basically better tech to centralize a volume control and a centralized management. Speakers that are actually set up the right way, and then a sensor that adjusts the volume based on ambient noise. 

[00:07:52] Marc Walkin: So the volume's always always in the right place. So they started more in the hospitality business and then they slowly grew and [00:08:00] these, they hustled man it's very interesting. They're founder led sales until now, basically. And they ended up securing McDonald's. So they're in all the McDonald's in Australia. 

[00:08:09] Marc Walkin: And they went as more of just an audio, only a premium audio, audio experience. Covid came around as and was with most companies who focused on, on kind of retail, had to rethink things. And they evolved the model where they basically said, okay, we have done a 

[00:08:24] Marc Walkin: really nice job already of setting up this premium audio network for these retailers. 

[00:08:29] Marc Walkin: And now how do we actually help them monetize it? And this was actually a little bit before the retail media wave. And so what, fast forward to today and what makes QSIC really unique and part of the reason why I joined is it's intelligent. So they tie into the retailer point of sale data. 

[00:08:45] Marc Walkin: And so to actually, lemme to take a step back, bringing it back to me 'cause it always comes back to me. You'll learn that. So I, when I was on the brand set I come I used to work for kind of Challenger CPG brands way back in the day and go, this was about 10 years ago or so, and I bought in-store audio [00:09:00] and I'm like, 

[00:09:01] Todd: you might have been one of the very first people in the world to  

[00:09:03] Marc Walkin: bought Instore. No, it had been around. It had been around. And I was just, I remember buying it and I'm like, this should be better, but it's, why isn't it? And I literally remember the conversation in my head at that time and I said, is it reaching the right audience? I don't really know can anyone even hear it? 

[00:09:19] Marc Walkin: Is it even playing? And then the amount of work I had to put to create, have a voiceover artist and create it just wasn't worth it. And it just was underwhelming. I dunno if it was bad, but it definitely wasn't good. And then I met the guys at NRF a couple years ago and they explained it to me and I just, the light bulb went off and I was with, I was with my previous company at the time, and I'm like, oh, wow. 

[00:09:37] Marc Walkin: They solved those four issues. And fast forward to what the product is. So it, there's a few key differentiators. So a, they tie into the retailer point of sale data, which does two big things. So one, it's allows predictive messaging. So if you're running a campaign for baby food  

[00:09:54]  

[00:09:54] Marc Walkin: For example, they're actually looking at the store level. 

[00:09:56] Marc Walkin: And if you visualize a heat map, 'cause that's actually what we use of when [00:10:00] transactions happen for that category, they're able to then. You use AI to run the ads during peak demand, so you're actually getting to the right shoppers at the right time. Just in, in an intelligent way, you're not guessing. 

[00:10:12] Marc Walkin: And then obviously that leads to closed loop reporting which don't even get me started  

[00:10:17] Tom: that's okay. We, yeah. we 

[00:10:17] Tom: don't 

[00:10:18] Tom: have to talk 

[00:10:18] Tom: about how retail media works. 

[00:10:19] Tom: Our listeners have 

[00:10:21] Marc Walkin: Yes. And it's super clean. And then we have an AI ad creator, so you don't have to have a voiceover artist 

[00:10:26] Tom: that's particularly interesting. Yeah. So that's where the agility comes from, is that you can just make these, you can do text  

[00:10:31] Tom: to  

[00:10:31] Tom: speech  

[00:10:32] Marc Walkin: so fast,  

[00:10:33] Marc Walkin: right? 

[00:10:33] Marc Walkin: Yeah. What makes it not a novelty? 'cause that can easily be a novelty. What makes it not a is it's powered by actual data to make sure it's getting to the right folks. But it's, we can get into market in real time. A use case could be if there's a snowstorm, and say you're a national retailer and you're a snowstorm and it only affects a hundred of your stores, right? 

[00:10:52] Marc Walkin: You have a thousand stores, but it only affects a hundred. You can then within minutes. Create an ad and deploy it about you. You need to [00:11:00] sell paper towels or, or whatever it may be. And, that's what's exciting about it. And it what, it  

[00:11:06] Marc Walkin: takes  

[00:11:06] Marc Walkin: a really boring category like audio and it's really reinventing. 

[00:11:10] Marc Walkin: And that's our we just rebranded and that's our tag is we're reinventing in-store audio for retail media for the retail media era. And it's a very it's a very interesting space. But I like this marketer. I like the challenge of how do we actually rehab the entire channel? 

[00:11:23] Todd: it's funny you think that it's you, this notion that it's boring and I think from a muzak traditional audio in-store audio perspective, that you could have that. But Tom and I have talked about in store and especially from a retail media perspective, and it's absolutely like to us leading edge. 

[00:11:35] Marc Walkin: well In  

[00:11:36] Todd: store, Anything in store, right? Retail media, and that's what I meant. And from that point of view, it's funny that you feel like you have to combat some historical norms around this, whereas we think it's  

[00:11:47] Marc Walkin: It's because audio by itself was more of operations thing. Oh, I totally get your point. But I never would've thought that. But that's a really ING aspect  

[00:11:55] Marc Walkin: It's boring, but I would, maybe a better word is underwhelming. Sure. And certainly as an ad channel, [00:12:00] quite underwhelming. And frankly, one of the big challenges we get, they're like, everybody is yeah, that sounds good, but I hear it. Insert  

[00:12:07] Marc Walkin: audio. doesn't work. 

[00:12:08] Todd: It's crazy to me as, and I think maybe this is true for all retail media that we are taking what was staid and boring, like it really trade marketing and the end caps have been like, it's so something that's been done for 50 years, 75 years, whatever it's been. 

[00:12:25] Todd: And now moving it into, its really first evolution in that long, and it becomes  

[00:12:31] Todd: exciting again. 

[00:12:32]  

[00:12:32] Todd: There's  

[00:12:32] Todd: It's what's old is new and it's as you hear the reports, and I know you guys have talked with Andrew Lipsman a lot, and he likes to talk about how in store is just this untapped opportunity,  

[00:12:40] Todd: it's not that it's not effective. It's amazingly effective according to his research. And I think that's the change here is suddenly you can actually learn that it's  

[00:12:48] Todd: effective. it's  

[00:12:49] Todd: easier 

[00:12:50] Todd: and it's way easier to do than it used to be. And I think that's part of the change is like the idea of doing AI generated ads and creatives, the ability to be active, the ability to point [00:13:00] control different stores and what's listening there's it, to me it's some fascinating retail management and operation opportunities that didn't exist before. 

[00:13:09] Todd: And it's going to come from like retail media is gonna inspire the next generation of retail operations, not the other way around. 

[00:13:17] QSIC-TT: Possibly, 

[00:13:18] Todd: I I know. 

[00:13:19] Todd: But like you think about audio is a good example of this, right? Yes. What, yes. What it's the idea of doing geographic targeting, that's a digital ad thing, right? 

[00:13:26] Todd: And that's what I mean by that is you're gonna have the idea of having a dashboard to control things in real time. That's an  

[00:13:31] Marc Walkin: That, that's what we're doing is where, part of the reason why in-store has been so obvious from day one, and I've been kicking and screaming literally from day one about how that's not, that's where all of the action is. 

[00:13:42] Marc Walkin: So the fact and the shopper marketing is a $40 billion industry today.  

[00:13:46] Marc Walkin: And yet nobody talks about it 'cause it's hard and it's old school. But what we're doing is making it. Feel you get all the benefits of digital, right? Where the way you purchase it the way you can do real time optimization, you're using first party data  

[00:13:59] Tom: [00:14:00] measure it  

[00:14:00] Tom: or 

[00:14:01] Tom: I think it's interesting not because of the whizzbang text to speech and agility and, 'cause I come from the mobile world where, we sold the weather example or whatever all day long and, location targeting, all that stuff. 

[00:14:12] Tom: What's interesting to me is you don't have to buy a screen. 

[00:14:16] Marc Walkin: Correct. It's a fraction of the It's not a CapEx lift, so you can test like crazy, right? Yep. Yep, absolutely. And I think  

[00:14:23] Tom: I'd love 

[00:14:23] Tom: to hear about who's using this, like who are the 

[00:14:26] Tom: players that have actually gone into in-store audio with you guys,  

[00:14:32] Marc Walkin: where we're getting a lot of attention is Gulp Media, which is seven 11 they've selected us. We're rolling out into every single store. And that, as you and I discussed is one of the most interesting retail media networks that are leaning into audio because they understand  

[00:14:45] Tom: how. Yeah. And we have a, we have another podcast that you can listen to. I'm not sure if you'll listen to it before or after this, but it'll dive very deep into the seven 11 Gulp Media Network. So I'm excited for you guys to be able to listen to that. But there are some things that I think are interesting about [00:15:00] that outside of that discussion, which is, I didn't realize this until we were just  

[00:15:03] Tom: chatting.  

[00:15:05] Tom: They're  

[00:15:05] Tom: not doing other retail media. They're doing Instore audio.  

[00:15:08] Marc Walkin: Or  

[00:15:08] Marc Walkin: they  

[00:15:08] Marc Walkin: they may  

[00:15:09] Marc Walkin: have  

[00:15:09] Marc Walkin: some, 

[00:15:09] Marc Walkin: there, there's a little there's some screens, I believe. But yeah, no, that's it. And part of what's interesting, and I love that use case, is like they have as much reach as they have 250 million transactions a month. 

[00:15:19] Marc Walkin: It's literally the largest commercial And they have, they have 250 million users a month. I think they have something like crazy, 200,000 transactions  

[00:15:28] Marc Walkin: hour. An hour. Yeah. 

[00:15:29] Marc Walkin: an hour. So they have the scale, but obviously convenience. It, doesn't lend itself to e-commerce. So they have to lean in store and yeah, it's, the results have been, quite remarkable. 

[00:15:40] Marc Walkin: And the other interesting thing is we're seeing really good results on kind of new products or new offers. And it just it's very interesting and it's very clean measurement. That's the other, I think that's the other thing that gives us some confidence. 

[00:15:54] Todd: no, I was gonna say  

[00:15:55] Todd: with regards  

[00:15:56] Todd: to  

[00:15:57] Todd: that  

[00:15:58] Todd: environment, it's really [00:16:00] interesting  

[00:16:00] Todd: to  

[00:16:00] Todd: think  

[00:16:00] Todd: about.  

[00:16:02] Todd: As  

[00:16:02] Todd: retailers  

[00:16:03] Todd: try to optimize  

[00:16:04] Todd: retail  

[00:16:05] Todd: media  

[00:16:05] Todd: for their  

[00:16:05] Todd: in-store experience, what's unique to them? And I think one thing that as we think  

[00:16:10] Todd: about the  

[00:16:10] Todd: rollout  

[00:16:10] Todd: of in-store media and  

[00:16:11] Todd: people  

[00:16:12] Todd: say, oh, it  

[00:16:12] Todd: isn't happening. 

[00:16:13] Todd: It's not happening. And then you hear stories like  

[00:16:15] Todd: this, seven 11's rolling  

[00:16:15] Todd: it out to all their  

[00:16:16] Todd: stores.  

[00:16:16] Todd: Holy crap. And it, I think  

[00:16:18] Todd: one of the questions that  

[00:16:19] Todd: pops up is it just a tier one? And we haven't seen it there, where you're starting to see  

[00:16:23] Todd: tier two and tier  

[00:16:24] Todd: three.  

[00:16:25] Todd: Regional category specific retailers embracing this as really interesting opportunities, and I think we get  

[00:16:31] Todd: too bogged down into  

[00:16:32] Todd: thinking about the  

[00:16:34] Todd: biggest  

[00:16:34] Todd: stores versus  

[00:16:36] Todd: the, where  

[00:16:36] Todd: a  

[00:16:36] Todd: lot of  

[00:16:37] Todd: innovation is actually happening  

[00:16:39] Todd: in terms of the  

[00:16:40] Todd: categories, like C stores, convenience stores, as a good example and what retail media can do when you get  

[00:16:45] Marc Walkin: beyond  

[00:16:46] Marc Walkin: the  

[00:16:46] Marc Walkin: website. 

[00:16:47] Marc Walkin: Yeah, 

[00:16:47] Marc Walkin: absolutely. And it touches on the how there is the royal we in retail media. We're talking so much about the who and the where, but there's this, the how in terms of the creativity. 

[00:16:59] Marc Walkin: What Andrew [00:17:00] mentioned? The the medium  

[00:17:00] Marc Walkin: is the message., what is the role that some of these play? 'cause everyone's just been following the AM Amazon playbook,  

[00:17:06] Marc Walkin: which  

[00:17:06] Marc Walkin: is crazy to me because they're completely different models. 

[00:17:11] Marc Walkin: A Amazon doesn't have trade or shopper marketing, it's all in ads. And they have built a, a custom tech stack over. 

[00:17:18] Tom: a 

[00:17:18] Marc Walkin: A decade or so, and you have retailers whose primary selling point is actually their reach and they're completely swapping it. They're going into their biggest weakness, which is on, which is online. 

[00:17:29] Marc Walkin: Only 10% of transactions are happening online, and 30% at most of reach is online for most retailers. And everyone just is following the same roadmap and playbook. And they're hitting ceilings unlike beyond the, top one or two. It's just, it's not, doesn't make any sense. 

[00:17:45] Marc Walkin: So we're at like a seven 11 and there are a million other examples who are not QSIC customers that they're adding their own flavor to it, right? There's,  

[00:17:53] Marc Walkin: you  

[00:17:53] Marc Walkin: can't try to be everything to everyone. There's pros and cons right? To, to everything else. So what is the role that X retailers should play? 

[00:17:59] Marc Walkin: What is the role [00:18:00] in the ecosystem rather than trying to be the  

[00:18:01] Todd: ecosystem, and what's interesting is, when you think about seven 11  

[00:18:05] Todd: reaching 250 million people that scale in any  

[00:18:08] Todd: immediate  

[00:18:09] Todd: business  

[00:18:09] Todd: that's meaningful. 

[00:18:10] Todd: Yes.  

[00:18:10] Todd: And this  

[00:18:11] Todd: is going to be a meaningful channel for marketers who wanna reach those customers.  

[00:18:16] Todd: What's also interesting about convenience stores, lots of  

[00:18:18] Todd: impulse buying, actually  

[00:18:20] Todd: ads can be something that really drive sales, especially I imagine for new  

[00:18:22] Todd: product  

[00:18:23] Todd: introductions into a C-store environment. 

[00:18:25] Todd: And so  

[00:18:26] Todd: therefore it's, I  

[00:18:27] Todd: think that's what's missing is like  

[00:18:28] Todd: people,  

[00:18:28] Todd: we get  

[00:18:28] Todd: so  

[00:18:28] Todd: stuck. If It's not  

[00:18:29] Todd: Amazon, it's not or Walmart, it's not. scale. 

[00:18:31] Todd: I'm like, what are you  

[00:18:32] Todd: talking about? There's so much opportunity to be done  

[00:18:34] Todd: here.  

[00:18:35] Todd: And if  

[00:18:36] Todd: we look  

[00:18:36] Todd: at it just and I  

[00:18:36] Todd: think  

[00:18:37] Todd: we've had this  

[00:18:38] Todd: made this comment before, we have to  

[00:18:39] Todd: take  

[00:18:39] Todd: more  

[00:18:40] Todd: lenses  

[00:18:41] Todd: and examples and analogies from  

[00:18:43] Todd: traditional  

[00:18:43] Todd: publishing, online publishing. 

[00:18:45] Todd: There's  

[00:18:46] Todd: large publishers,  

[00:18:47] Todd: there's  

[00:18:47] Todd: premium publishers, there's category  

[00:18:49] Todd: publishers, and I think we're gonna see the same thing in retail media where  

[00:18:52] Todd: it doesn't we've been painting this  

[00:18:53] Todd: brush with  

[00:18:53] Todd: one  

[00:18:53] Todd: size fits all  

[00:18:54] Todd: versus the how do we think of things  

[00:18:56] Todd: specifically  

[00:18:57] Todd: and  

[00:18:57] Todd: that are interesting and unique. 

[00:18:59] Todd: And I think  

[00:18:59] Todd: that's  

[00:18:59] Todd: what's  

[00:18:59] Todd: starting [00:19:00] to happen is  

[00:19:00] Todd: I think that technology is  

[00:19:01] Todd: mature enough and the  

[00:19:02] Todd: providers are  

[00:19:02] Todd: mature enough to do  

[00:19:03] Todd: interesting  

[00:19:04] Todd: things.  

[00:19:04] Marc Walkin: Like  

[00:19:04] Marc Walkin: the,  

[00:19:04] Tom: 11 about media. 

[00:19:05] QSIC-MarcWalkin: it's  

[00:19:06] Marc Walkin: interesting. I, the mature thing,  

[00:19:08] Marc Walkin: what I think there's two things happening. There are some that are  

[00:19:12] Marc Walkin: innovative  

[00:19:13] Marc Walkin: and risk takers to a degree to go against the  

[00:19:15] Marc Walkin: grain, right?  

[00:19:16] Marc Walkin: So  

[00:19:16] Marc Walkin: I  

[00:19:17] Marc Walkin: think that's, and like I think that is a seven 11 is a perfect example of that, but I also think it's outta necessity because the other way isn't simply isn't working. 

[00:19:25] Marc Walkin: So they either have to do it or do nothing. So I actually think it's a lot of that, frankly, is they tried this playbook  

[00:19:31] Todd: didn't know.  

[00:19:31] Marc Walkin: so now they need to try something else. 

[00:19:33] Todd: and I think to the, my point about the saying the technology is useful enough when I say mature enough, right? It's  

[00:19:38] Todd: practical  

[00:19:38] Todd: enough. Yeah. You can  

[00:19:39] Todd: implement it across.  

[00:19:41] Todd: What do they have?  

[00:19:42] Todd: 10,  

[00:19:42] Todd: 15,000  

[00:19:42] Todd: stores? See, 

[00:19:44] Todd: just, that's an insane amount.  

[00:19:45] Todd: And  

[00:19:46] Todd: so  

[00:19:46] Todd: I think we've been stuck in thinking,  

[00:19:48] Todd: oh,  

[00:19:48] Todd: this is all  

[00:19:49] Todd: coming soon  

[00:19:50] Todd: someday. 

[00:19:51] Todd: Versus,  

[00:19:51] Todd: no.  

[00:19:52] Todd: it's real.  

[00:19:53] Todd: These are real implementations that are happening. We can  

[00:19:55] Todd: send  

[00:19:56] Todd: examples, like you can have, once it rolls  

[00:19:58] Todd: out,  

[00:19:58] Todd: you'll be able to walk into a [00:20:00] 7-Eleven and experience  

[00:20:01] Todd: it. And I  

[00:20:01] Todd: think  

[00:20:01] Todd: that's the  

[00:20:01] Todd: other  

[00:20:01] Todd: thing from an adoption  

[00:20:02] Todd: standpoint, as we in this space and the retailers start to experience  

[00:20:07] Todd: these in the  

[00:20:08] Todd: real world. 

[00:20:09] Todd: It will lend to even more  

[00:20:10] Todd: There was like this tale of time taking to get here, but now we're at that inflection point where I  

[00:20:15] Todd: think in store is gonna be  

[00:20:16] Todd: such a  

[00:20:17] Todd: meaningful  

[00:20:18] Todd: and exciting road for the  

[00:20:19] Todd: next  

[00:20:20] Todd: couple of years. 

[00:20:21] Todd: The  

[00:20:21] Todd: technology is, CapEx is  

[00:20:22] Todd: reasonable enough,  

[00:20:23] Todd: the ability to execute and drive  

[00:20:25] Todd: campaigns is reasonable enough. The ability for the  

[00:20:28] Todd: buyers to  

[00:20:28] Todd: understand what they're buying. I  

[00:20:29] Todd: think they're  

[00:20:30] Todd: digital  

[00:20:30] Todd: savvy enough to know.  

[00:20:32] Todd: And  

[00:20:32] Todd: so there's a lot coming together that it's gonna be this explosion of  

[00:20:35] Todd: cool stuff  

[00:20:36] Todd: that's happening  

[00:20:37] Todd: in  

[00:20:37] Todd: store  

[00:20:38] Marc Walkin: I've  

[00:20:39] Marc Walkin: run shopper marketing, for on the brand side, right? I've worked for retailers on, and a lot of the issue, in my opinion to date has been, did this thing, even, if you're talking physical signage, for example, which actually I believe, I actually think it's quite effective  

[00:20:51] Marc Walkin: when done correctly. 

[00:20:52] Marc Walkin: They don't even know. We used to have to hire people to go look at the to see if the signs are up.  

[00:20:58] Marc Walkin: it, it's like that's the [00:21:00] problem. And I think the real unlock for  

[00:21:01] Marc Walkin: retail audio or anything, frankly, is  

[00:21:04] Marc Walkin: it's  

[00:21:04] Marc Walkin: gotta be  

[00:21:04] Marc Walkin: easy  

[00:21:06] Marc Walkin: and it has not in store has not been easy. It's been obvious,  

[00:21:09] Marc Walkin: but  

[00:21:09] Tom: easy  

[00:21:10] Tom: Yeah. But I think when we first  

[00:21:12] Tom: started talking back,  

[00:21:13] Tom: when you were doing Turbyne you mentioned something  

[00:21:15] Tom: that I  

[00:21:16] Tom: hadn't really thought of. 

[00:21:17] Tom: 'cause as much as you've been a digital publishing guy, I was a digital retail media guy. And  

[00:21:22] Tom: we were selling a  

[00:21:23] Tom: lot of sponsored search, might even have been selling digital at home, but the in-store piece we weren't looking at because it was trade. We  

[00:21:30] Tom: weren't  

[00:21:30] Tom: allowed to  

[00:21:31] Tom: touch that. And  

[00:21:31] Tom: that meant,  

[00:21:32] Tom: and you had this great thing saying yeah,  

[00:21:33] Tom: you did all this digital media and  

[00:21:35] Tom: then you're subsidizing the guy who bought the  

[00:21:36] Tom: end cap. 

[00:21:37] Tom: Yeah.  

[00:21:37] Tom: So yeah, is  

[00:21:38] Tom: that still, 

[00:21:40] Tom: when you talk to  

[00:21:41] Tom: whether it's 7-Eleven or the, or the brands that are using Qsic's platform? 

[00:21:46] Tom: how 

[00:21:46] Tom: much are you evangelizing as  

[00:21:48] Tom: the  

[00:21:48] Tom: marketer, like, 

[00:21:49] Tom: why 

[00:21:50] Tom: they need to be doing  

[00:21:51] Tom: this and  

[00:21:51] Tom: what is  

[00:21:51] Tom: that story today like? what, why  

[00:21:53] Tom: they need to keep audio 

[00:21:54] Tom: Like why in store needs to be in conjunction  

[00:21:58] Marc Walkin: with  

[00:21:59] Marc Walkin: what [00:22:00] you're doing online  

[00:22:00] Marc Walkin: and to be clear, it is the in  

[00:22:02] Marc Walkin: conjunction piece. That's what I mean about the how That  

[00:22:06] Marc Walkin: is al always the best, right? 

[00:22:09] Marc Walkin: When you start coordinating  

[00:22:10] Marc Walkin: things in an intelligent way. That will perform better  

[00:22:13] Marc Walkin: than, it's greater than the  

[00:22:14] Marc Walkin: sum of, its parts, right? Regardless of the channels. It's, in 7-Eleven's case, because they're so impulse driven, it's in if it's an impulse purchase, it's, they're going to be far more  

[00:22:25] Marc Walkin: susceptible to advertising, right? Regardless of  

[00:22:27] Marc Walkin: channel. So that's one reason. And then the other one is the role of audio in particular, and I've just, I've been fascinated with this well before  

[00:22:35] Marc Walkin: QSIC  

[00:22:36] Marc Walkin: is, it's the reach channel. For  

[00:22:38] Marc Walkin: Instore. One of the drawbacks of Instore is you are getting them at the  

[00:22:42] Marc Walkin: moment of truth and point of purchase, but you're not, it's hard to  

[00:22:46] Marc Walkin: you you're only getting the people that are walking by. 

[00:22:47] Marc Walkin: You don't know who's  

[00:22:48] Marc Walkin: actually hearing it. with audio,  

[00:22:50] Marc Walkin: you  

[00:22:50] Marc Walkin: actually are getting, assuming it's the right volume and executed correctly, right? When done correctly, you're actually able to reach the entire store, whether it's a. Bottom of the [00:23:00] funnel  

[00:23:00] Marc Walkin: transaction  

[00:23:00] Marc Walkin: type message. It  

[00:23:01] Marc Walkin: can be a brand message, it  

[00:23:02] Marc Walkin: can be used, and I'm a big fan  

[00:23:04] Marc Walkin: of this  

[00:23:04] Marc Walkin: to amplify screen,  

[00:23:05] Marc Walkin: whatever you go, whatever's happening on screens, sampling all of those things. 

[00:23:09] Marc Walkin: Trade,  

[00:23:10] Marc Walkin: it's a really, and it can also  

[00:23:11] Marc Walkin: be tied into onsite stuff, right? It should be coordinated. And  

[00:23:16] Marc Walkin: right now in, everything's so siloed. Even the brands are still a  

[00:23:20] Marc Walkin: little bit siloed. They seem to be moving forward faster than anyone else, but. Agencies either do digital or  

[00:23:26] Marc Walkin: they do in store. 

[00:23:27] Marc Walkin: Retailers are not incentivized that way either. So to  

[00:23:31] Marc Walkin: me it's, there's gonna be a great  

[00:23:32] Marc Walkin: recalibration  

[00:23:34] Marc Walkin: of retail  

[00:23:35] Tom: and  

[00:23:35] Todd: a  

[00:23:35] Todd: convergence.  

[00:23:36] Tom: really like the idea that retail media  

[00:23:38] Tom: can  

[00:23:39] Tom: be the driver of the treasure hunt or the, how  

[00:23:41] Tom: you  

[00:23:41] Tom: get around  

[00:23:42] Tom: the store  

[00:23:42] Tom: or  

[00:23:43] Tom: reminding you that there are  

[00:23:44] Tom: new line extensions that you didn't know  

[00:23:46] Tom: existed. 

[00:23:46] Tom: Things like that. So  

[00:23:48] Tom: I  

[00:23:48] Tom: like  

[00:23:48] Tom: that idea.  

[00:23:49] Tom: In  

[00:23:49] Tom: practice,  

[00:23:51] Tom: how do  

[00:23:51] Tom: you  

[00:23:52] Tom: see  

[00:23:52] Tom: that happening? who are the types of companies that are bringing that together?  

[00:23:55] Tom: Obviously QSIC  

[00:23:56] Tom: is doing it for audio.  

[00:23:57] Marc Walkin: Who  

[00:23:58] Marc Walkin: else  

[00:23:58] Marc Walkin: making  

[00:23:58] Marc Walkin: this  

[00:23:58] Marc Walkin: happen? 

[00:23:59] Marc Walkin: So there [00:24:00] are, frankly, my previous company  

[00:24:01] Marc Walkin: that I, my, that I co-founded Turbyne, that was the mission quite frankly,  

[00:24:04] Marc Walkin: of it was, I always  

[00:24:06] Marc Walkin: said it was, we're channel  

[00:24:07] Marc Walkin: agnostic,  

[00:24:08] Marc Walkin: which is what the retailers really need. I think it's so ad tech driven that everyone  

[00:24:12] Marc Walkin: just pushing square peg, round hole and you serving themselves  

[00:24:15] Marc Walkin: or their own limitations, right?  

[00:24:18] Marc Walkin: You need to just look at  

[00:24:19] Marc Walkin: it together  

[00:24:19] Marc Walkin: as a single workflow. And  

[00:24:21] Marc Walkin: in order to do that, you have to make sure everybody's  

[00:24:23] Marc Walkin: incentivized the same. Because  

[00:24:25] Marc Walkin: otherwise, even internally, like merchandising generally are not fans of retail media.  

[00:24:31] Todd: Like they're  

[00:24:32] Todd: not  

[00:24:33] Todd: historically. I  

[00:24:33] Todd: think that's  

[00:24:34] Todd: been the  

[00:24:34] Todd: case though. We're starting, I think to see that come together a little bit a is  

[00:24:39] Todd: as what's happened in some of the conversations  

[00:24:41] Todd: we've  

[00:24:41] Todd: had with some  

[00:24:42] Todd: of the retailers we work with  

[00:24:43] Todd: is  

[00:24:44] Todd: as the merchandisers look at their  

[00:24:46] Todd: roster of trade marketing  

[00:24:48] Todd: dollars and where that's coming from. 

[00:24:50] Todd: They start to  

[00:24:50] Todd: realize,  

[00:24:51] Todd: oh, I'm actually not getting as much as I  

[00:24:52] Todd: thought. Oh, I wish I  

[00:24:53] Todd: could get  

[00:24:53] Todd: more from this brand.  

[00:24:54] Todd: And then once they re realize retail  

[00:24:56] Todd: media and some of  

[00:24:57] Todd: the new opportunities, like your point about  

[00:24:58] Todd: QSIC,  

[00:24:59] Todd: oh,  

[00:24:59] Todd: if I have ic, I have a [00:25:00] new thing to sell  

[00:25:00] Todd: in. right? I can bring in the retail media specialists. We can go and sell in together. I haven't maximized the trade dollars. 

[00:25:06] Todd: I'm  

[00:25:06] Todd: not hitting  

[00:25:06] Todd: my trade  

[00:25:07] Todd: goals. So therefore, retail media,  

[00:25:08] Todd: once they. realize that retail media is  

[00:25:10] Todd: something that they can use to move their and meet their goals. Then yes. I think in the environment where they're already  

[00:25:15] Todd: maxed out and they've already put their vendor over a  

[00:25:17] Marc Walkin: Rivera, which  

[00:25:17] Marc Walkin: again  

[00:25:18] Todd: in  

[00:25:18] Todd: some  

[00:25:18] Marc Walkin: examples, I've heard big companies CPGs say it's simply blood money. 

[00:25:22] Todd: It has and it's,  

[00:25:24] Todd: it is and  

[00:25:24] Todd: the way it's  

[00:25:25] Todd: being done. 

[00:25:25] Todd: I think at some of the larger companies,  

[00:25:27] Todd: that's the case.  

[00:25:27] Todd: Whereas with the tier two and tier three where they have to be more creative and more strategic and actually provide value,  

[00:25:33] Todd: they've  

[00:25:33] Todd: never  

[00:25:33] Todd: maxed  

[00:25:33] Todd: out their trade  

[00:25:34] Todd: dollars. They're, they've been chasing, trying to get every last penny they can, and they  

[00:25:37] Todd: never their goal is  

[00:25:38] Todd: X percent of  

[00:25:39] Todd: sales. 

[00:25:39] Todd: They never hit  

[00:25:40] Todd: that  

[00:25:40] Todd: from what we can  

[00:25:41] Todd: tell.  

[00:25:42] Todd: And therefore now that's once they realize that and they look at the math and realize,  

[00:25:45] Todd: oh yeah, you're right, there's vendors  

[00:25:46] Todd: I'm not getting  

[00:25:47] Todd: any money from.  

[00:25:48] Todd: There's  

[00:25:49] Todd: vendors  

[00:25:49] Todd: that I'm getting  

[00:25:50] Todd: less than  

[00:25:50] Todd: I  

[00:25:50] Todd: should, or I think  

[00:25:51] Todd: we should  

[00:25:52] Todd: and I want, if  

[00:25:53] Todd: I sell something new and interesting,  

[00:25:55] Todd: then they  

[00:25:55] Todd: wanna partner  

[00:25:56] Todd: with retail media. right? 

[00:25:57] Todd: So there  

[00:25:57] Todd: are,  

[00:25:58] Todd: so  

[00:25:58] Todd: I think. there are [00:26:00] situations where that's absolutely the  

[00:26:01] Todd: case,  

[00:26:01] Todd: but you're  

[00:26:01] Marc Walkin: right,  

[00:26:01] Marc Walkin: there's some  

[00:26:01] Marc Walkin: blood  

[00:26:01] Marc Walkin: money aspects  

[00:26:02] Marc Walkin: where  

[00:26:02] Marc Walkin: they're  

[00:26:02] Marc Walkin: just  

[00:26:03] Marc Walkin: like, we, but actually I think 

[00:26:04] Marc Walkin: the biggest problem  

[00:26:05] Marc Walkin: is  

[00:26:05] Marc Walkin: the perception. And I have, and sometimes it's true and sometimes  

[00:26:09] Marc Walkin: it's  

[00:26:09] Marc Walkin: not  

[00:26:10] Marc Walkin: the  

[00:26:10] Marc Walkin: perception that  

[00:26:11] Marc Walkin: A, they are taking  

[00:26:12] Marc Walkin: trade dollars and putting it somewhere else, but they don't think retail media is as effective  

[00:26:16] Marc Walkin: As  

[00:26:16] Marc Walkin: trade. 

[00:26:16] Marc Walkin: So  

[00:26:17] Marc Walkin: therefore, like their ultimate  

[00:26:18] Todd: goal  

[00:26:19] Todd: is to sell more 

[00:26:20] Todd: And that's I think your in store, outta store problem, right? Yes. So it's not, when it's purely e-commerce for  

[00:26:25] Todd: a  

[00:26:25] Todd: retailer that is  

[00:26:26] Todd: 70 to  

[00:26:27] Todd: 90% in  

[00:26:27] Todd: store, it  

[00:26:28] Todd: doesn't make  

[00:26:29] Todd: sense. Whereas,  

[00:26:30] Todd: but if  

[00:26:30] Todd: it's  

[00:26:30] Todd: a  

[00:26:31] Todd: combined,  

[00:26:32] Todd: and then again, that's the  

[00:26:32] Todd: crossover. I think  

[00:26:33] Todd: that's  

[00:26:33] Todd: maybe  

[00:26:33] Todd: why  

[00:26:33] Todd: izer have been against it, which is  

[00:26:35] Todd: that  

[00:26:35] Todd: the  

[00:26:36] Marc Walkin: across the world point missing. that's the  

[00:26:37] Marc Walkin: in store. Yeah. 99% of  

[00:26:39] Marc Walkin: inventory sold is 

[00:26:41] Marc Walkin: in  

[00:26:41] Tom: Yeah. I  

[00:26:41] Marc Walkin: I guess  

[00:26:42] Marc Walkin: where 

[00:26:42] Todd: gets changed  

[00:26:43] Tom: out of the  

[00:26:43] Tom: store. 

[00:26:43] Tom: Yes. look, 

[00:26:44] Tom: offsite  

[00:26:45] Tom: and onsite  

[00:26:46] Tom: retail media had this problem too. It's a measurement problem, but when you go in store, you now have this  

[00:26:51] Tom: new thing, audio or  

[00:26:52] Tom: digital signage, and you  

[00:26:54] Tom: can measure that  

[00:26:55] Tom: better than you  

[00:26:55] Tom: can  

[00:26:56] Tom: blades  

[00:26:56] Tom: and  

[00:26:57] Tom: wobblers and things.  

[00:26:58] Tom: That's  

[00:26:58] Tom: the  

[00:26:58] Tom: promise would  

[00:26:59] Tom: [00:27:00] be that you're  

[00:27:00] Tom: starting  

[00:27:00] Tom: to  

[00:27:01] Tom: bring metrics  

[00:27:02] Tom: into  

[00:27:02] Todd: that  

[00:27:03] Todd: trade world. 

[00:27:03] Marc Walkin: And metrics to my new  

[00:27:04] Tom: word shelf wobblers. Yes.  

[00:27:06] Todd: Yes. I didn't even know that was the amount of  

[00:27:08] Todd: terms I've learned,  

[00:27:09] Todd: like  

[00:27:09] Todd: the Ironman board and shelf wobblers,  

[00:27:11] Todd: and  

[00:27:12] Todd: I'm so amused at  

[00:27:13] Todd: like the  

[00:27:13] Todd: language  

[00:27:14] Tom: of  

[00:27:14] Tom: retailers,  

[00:27:14] Tom: blades. Yeah. Like all  

[00:27:15] Tom: these things.  

[00:27:15] Tom: So  

[00:27:16] Tom: I either you're saying that, I  

[00:27:18] Tom: think  

[00:27:18] Tom: you just  

[00:27:19] Tom: piped up what a merchant  

[00:27:20] Tom: would say. 

[00:27:20] Tom: It's  

[00:27:20] Tom: oh, maybe  

[00:27:20] Tom: it's not  

[00:27:21] Tom: more  

[00:27:21] Tom: measurable. I don't think  

[00:27:23] Marc Walkin: it's  

[00:27:23] Marc Walkin: just  

[00:27:23] Marc Walkin: about  

[00:27:23] Marc Walkin: measuring  

[00:27:24] Marc Walkin: one versus the other. You  

[00:27:25] Tom: measure them together.  

[00:27:26] Marc Walkin: Percent. And  

[00:27:27] Marc Walkin: I don't  

[00:27:27] Marc Walkin: know  

[00:27:27] Marc Walkin: if  

[00:27:27] Marc Walkin: anybody's  

[00:27:28] Tom: that  

[00:27:28] Marc Walkin: because  

[00:27:28] Marc Walkin: nobody makes money doing that.  

[00:27:30] Marc Walkin: Yeah. Honestly.  

[00:27:31] Marc Walkin: Yeah. Not to I  

[00:27:32] Tom: you, it's okay to say  

[00:27:33] Tom: bad things on this po It's a It's a safe  

[00:27:35] Marc Walkin: space. 

[00:27:35] Marc Walkin: It's  

[00:27:35] Marc Walkin: not a  

[00:27:36] Marc Walkin: soundproof space,  

[00:27:37] Marc Walkin: It's definitely not a but it's, it is a  

[00:27:38] Tom: safe  

[00:27:39] Marc Walkin: space  

[00:27:39] Marc Walkin: for you. , yeah. So, okay. So di  

[00:27:41] Marc Walkin: this is what's  

[00:27:41] Marc Walkin: always bothered me, like  

[00:27:42] Marc Walkin: full transparency  

[00:27:44] Marc Walkin: With offsite and I'm not saying they're not valuable 'cause I do,  

[00:27:47] Tom: think  

[00:27:47] Marc Walkin: offsite  

[00:27:47] Marc Walkin: When  

[00:27:48] Marc Walkin: done well. 

[00:27:49] Marc Walkin: I think there's a lot  

[00:27:50] Marc Walkin: of value there. But it's so far from the point of purchase that you, there's  

[00:27:54] Marc Walkin: a million touch points. Everyone's taking credit for the same sale  

[00:27:59] QSIC-TT: [00:28:00] and  

[00:28:00] Marc Walkin: nine outta 10 times  

[00:28:02] Marc Walkin: they're buying something 'cause it was on sale.  

[00:28:03] Marc Walkin: They  

[00:28:03] Marc Walkin: just see it at the store. Like  

[00:28:05] Marc Walkin: it's just, I don't know.  

[00:28:07] Todd: jaded. I get it.  

[00:28:07] Todd: It's  

[00:28:08] Todd: not  

[00:28:08] Todd: jaded. 

[00:28:08] Todd: It's  

[00:28:09] Todd: I  

[00:28:09] Todd: think it, it's a, fair  

[00:28:10] Todd: point in  

[00:28:10] Todd: terms of,  

[00:28:11] Todd: which is again,  

[00:28:12] Todd: goes back to  

[00:28:13] Todd: are we gonna see a more holistic approach to  

[00:28:15] Todd: retail  

[00:28:15] Todd: media, especially from the retailer standpoint and the brand standpoint. 

[00:28:17] Todd: I think the pro, the brand think being blood dry because  

[00:28:20] Todd: there, it's not coordinated. It's  

[00:28:22] Todd: left  

[00:28:22] Todd: hand,  

[00:28:22] Todd: right hand challenges  

[00:28:23] Todd: The retailer are the  

[00:28:25] Todd: merchandisers and there are men teams actually working together. And as it gets more  

[00:28:28] Marc Walkin: holistic,  

[00:28:29] Marc Walkin: I  

[00:28:29] Marc Walkin: think you  

[00:28:29] Marc Walkin: can  

[00:28:29] Marc Walkin: deliver a  

[00:28:30] Marc Walkin: package. 

[00:28:30] Marc Walkin: Absolutely. Walmart's doing that. Walmart.  

[00:28:33] Marc Walkin: has begun, ,  

[00:28:34] Marc Walkin: I know Sam's Club. I was talking  

[00:28:35] Marc Walkin: to someone the  

[00:28:35] Marc Walkin: other day, like they are Moving under the same  

[00:28:38] Marc Walkin: umbrella I talked to on the brand side, Nestle  

[00:28:40] Tom: When  

[00:28:40] Tom: you say moving under the the same, you're saying it's the  

[00:28:43] Marc Walkin: sales  

[00:28:43] Marc Walkin: of 

[00:28:44] Tom: retail media? 

[00:28:45] Tom: Yeah, media.  

[00:28:45] Marc Walkin: media. It's all,  

[00:28:47] Tom: Buy.  

[00:28:47] Tom: We've  

[00:28:47] Tom: heard, I've heard it 

[00:28:48] Marc Walkin: It's obvious. It's  

[00:28:48] Marc Walkin: the thing. I think  

[00:28:49] Marc Walkin: it'll eventually happen.  

[00:28:51] Marc Walkin: And it, how it's, again, it's all  

[00:28:52] Marc Walkin: in the, it's all in the how. 

[00:28:54] Marc Walkin: You can do the right thing poorly. And you could do the wrong thing. And sometimes  

[00:28:57] Marc Walkin: you get better results  

[00:28:58] Todd: doing  

[00:28:59] Todd: that. And that maybe [00:29:00] that's,  

[00:29:00] Todd: I think  

[00:29:01] Todd: I  

[00:29:01] Todd: think the  

[00:29:01] Todd: other thing that kind of  

[00:29:02] Todd: a, the light bulb went on for me earlier in a  

[00:29:04] Todd: previous conversation  

[00:29:05] Todd: was  

[00:29:06] Todd: that  

[00:29:07] Todd: maybe the division starts to change,  

[00:29:09] Todd: is  

[00:29:10] Todd: RMNs will really, and  

[00:29:12] Todd: those  

[00:29:12] Marc Walkin: teams will  

[00:29:13] Marc Walkin: be non-endemic sales. Yes. And then  

[00:29:15] Todd: endemic  

[00:29:15] Todd: will be  

[00:29:16] Todd: this  

[00:29:16] Todd: coordinated  

[00:29:17] Todd: merchandising,  

[00:29:18] Todd: retail  

[00:29:19] Todd: specific operation. And I think  

[00:29:20] Todd: that's the  

[00:29:21] Todd: line  

[00:29:21] Todd: right now when you have  

[00:29:22] Todd: retail media selling to  

[00:29:23] Todd: endemic.  

[00:29:23] Todd: That's the  

[00:29:23] Todd: weird Crossover. point. Yeah. Like you have  

[00:29:25] Todd: multiple people  

[00:29:25] Todd: selling to the same person, but we divide  

[00:29:27] Todd: it between  

[00:29:28] Todd: That's interesting. Retail  

[00:29:29] Todd: media is  

[00:29:29] Todd: the  

[00:29:29] Todd: non-endemic piece,  

[00:29:31] Todd: and  

[00:29:31] Todd: then  

[00:29:32] Todd: merchandising is the endemic  

[00:29:33] Todd: with  

[00:29:33] Todd: all the same underlying platforms underneath. It's and  

[00:29:36] Todd: what's not,  

[00:29:36] Todd: you were talking about Zitcha as a good example of one of interesting things they do is they create like an actual  

[00:29:41] Todd: inventory of  

[00:29:41] Todd: all the  

[00:29:42] Tom: you  

[00:29:42] Tom: can sell. Yep.  

[00:29:43]  

[00:29:43] Todd: wobbler and  

[00:29:43] Todd: all digital  

[00:29:44] Todd: and analog and  

[00:29:45] Todd: what  

[00:29:45] Todd: have you. And  

[00:29:46] Todd: I  

[00:29:46] Todd: think that's what  

[00:29:46] Todd: starts to  

[00:29:46] Todd: change, is  

[00:29:47] Todd: suddenly it's oh, we have a shared dashboard or  

[00:29:49] Todd: shared  

[00:29:49] Todd: catalog of things  

[00:29:50] Todd: that we can sell  

[00:29:51] Todd: and we're the  

[00:29:52] Todd: non-endemic team and you're in the  

[00:29:53] Todd: endemic team And  

[00:29:54] Todd: that's that. And that's a good  

[00:29:55] Todd: line  

[00:29:55] Todd: like  

[00:29:55] Todd: that I  

[00:29:56] Todd: think  

[00:29:56] Todd: people can look at  

[00:29:56] Todd: and go, oh  

[00:29:57] Todd: yeah, as  

[00:29:57] Todd: a  

[00:29:57] Todd: merchandiser, I'm  

[00:29:58] Todd: never talking  

[00:29:59] Todd: to a non-endemic. There's  

[00:29:59] Todd: not [00:30:00] chance on hell that would ever happen. But as, and as an  

[00:30:01] Todd: RMN, as someone  

[00:30:03] Todd: from the  

[00:30:03] Todd: ad tech world,  

[00:30:04] Todd: you're  

[00:30:04] Todd: used to  

[00:30:04] Todd: selling to  

[00:30:05] Todd: anyone and everyone.  

[00:30:06] Tom: thinking of  

[00:30:06] Tom: vendor specific.  

[00:30:08] Tom: So  

[00:30:08] Marc Walkin: maybe  

[00:30:08] Marc Walkin: that's  

[00:30:08] Marc Walkin: the, that's a real  

[00:30:09] Marc Walkin: insight  

[00:30:09] Marc Walkin: that  

[00:30:10] Marc Walkin: generated  

[00:30:11] Marc Walkin: That's  

[00:30:11] Tom: right.  

[00:30:11] Tom: Yeah.  

[00:30:12] Tom: Great. Mark.  

[00:30:13] Tom: I  

[00:30:13] Tom: want to  

[00:30:13] Tom: thank you,  

[00:30:14] Tom: mark,  

[00:30:14] Tom: for 

[00:30:15] Tom: Not only, coming  

[00:30:16] Tom: on, but inviting us to your, podcast.  

[00:30:19] Marc Walkin: We mood.  

[00:30:19] Marc Walkin: We're gonna,  

[00:30:20] Marc Walkin: we're  

[00:30:20] Marc Walkin: about to  

[00:30:20] Marc Walkin: go to your happy  

[00:30:21] Marc Walkin: hour. That's right. So for  

[00:30:22] Marc Walkin: all of  

[00:30:22] Marc Walkin: you, this  

[00:30:22] Marc Walkin: has already  

[00:30:23] Todd: in the  

[00:30:23] Todd: past, Yes. Happy  

[00:30:25] Todd: hour So if you know  

[00:30:25] Todd: future, at  

[00:30:26] Todd: the next trade events,  

[00:30:28] Todd: if QSIC  

[00:30:28] Todd: will  

[00:30:28] Todd: throw  

[00:30:29] Todd: happy hours, reach  

[00:30:29] Todd: out to  

[00:30:30] Todd: Mark, he'll get you  

[00:30:30] Todd: on  

[00:30:30] Todd: the guest  

[00:30:31] Todd: list 

[00:30:31] Todd: and,  

[00:30:31] Tom: and 

[00:30:31] Tom: buy you a free  

[00:30:32] Tom: drink.  

[00:30:32] Marc Walkin: Yes.  

[00:30:34] Marc Walkin: Thanks  

[00:30:34] Marc Walkin: again  

[00:30:34] Tom: and  

[00:30:34] Tom: we'll see you  

[00:30:35] Tom: next time.  

[00:30:35] Tom: Thanks  

[00:30:35] Todd: Thanks everyone. 

[00:30:37]  

[00:30:37] Tom: You are listening to the Middlemen podcast with me, Tom Limongello